Monday, February 22, 2016

whatever you need to tell yourself, pal

Nigel West Dickens:
GMO Alarmist Nassim Taleb Backs Out of Debate. I Refute Him Anyway.
It's a shame that an economist and an economist-who-thinks-he's-a-scientist can't agree on a matter of pure science. The thinks-he's-a-scientist variant, Nigel West Dickens, doesn't even understand science but he's arguing it anyway, distorting things all along the way.

Question:  What does Ron Bailey know about genetics, other than what economists tell him on the subject?

Answer:  Nothing.  But let's not focus on science or genetics in the context of GMOs.  Let's focus instead on economics.  That's the real science, right Nige?

Tyler Cowen sees no problems with genetic tampering

Ron Bailey would be red-faced and spittle-casting if a geneticist (M.D. + Ph.D. working strictly in research, not someone paid by Monsanto to justify GMOs) were to opine authoritatively on economics issues or what Bailey might call the virtues of capitalism, but hypocrisy and a lack of intellectual integrity don't bother Bailey when it's Bailey being the hypocrite or intellectual fraud!

If there's anywhere Ron Bailey has "refuted" geneticists, I'd like to see it.  Presently it's absent from his entries at the Silent T, but maybe he's got an airtight, slam-dunk refutation hiding up his shirt sleeve.

Oh wait!  Here's my irrefutable refutation right here!

Ron Bailey's science chops consist of little more than telling an audience of greed-head science ignorami precisely what they want to hear.  That's a far cry from science chops in the world of science, but in the world of Silent T Journalism, it's like being the world's foremost authority on genetics.


Wahn Baiwee said...

The only people who understand GMOs are the people who can make money off them. Everyone else is a fraidy-cat Marxist who is trying to stop progress and without progress, I can't merge with a machine and live forever. Also, without progress, everyone will die at age 40 because they ate natural fruits and vegetable and grains, while the smart-smart-smart-set (which includes me, of course) are subsisting on synthetic pseudo-veg/fruit/grain. Nature is communistic Marxist anti-capitalist nonsense. Only human ingenuity is edible and nutritious. I survived 4 years of undergrad eating plastic and drinking gasoline, and look where it landed me!

Harold Caidagh said...

Say, uh... Wahn. Tell us about the science classes you've taken at the collegiate or post-grad level, where you took them, who taught them, and what grades you earned.

Also, give us your GRE scores in the General and in the Biology sub-test. I'm sure they were nearly perfect, right. Since you were admitted to every significant genetics, molecular biology and cell biology Ph.D. program extant at the time you finished college, but opted against those Marxist dogmatics in favor of Journalism. Right?

Share, Wahn. Share.

Wahn Baiwee said...

I don't need some stupid Marxist university pseudo-science or junk science program to validate what I know. I know more than you, and that's all we need to know. There's no way you know as much as me because if you did, you'd see I'm right here.

Chet Redweld said...

That's pretty much how Bailey "refuted" Taleb. What a coup.

Harold Caidagh said...

Dickens knows as much about science as the Ding-Dong knows about politics and human motivation.

Asymptotically approaching zilch, in other words.

Karl Franz Ochstradt said...

Walter Mitty

Chet Redweld said...

Don't be the dog.
Be the flea.

Wahn Baiwee said...

Assinbottically? Trashentropically? What the hell? That's not even a word! You are a science fraud! You don't even understand economics! You can't even grasp that if there's a demand, technology will respond with a supply -- and people are demanding fruits and vegetables that never ripen or get rotten. Technology will conquer nature as soon as you idiot Marxists who don't understand economics get out of the way.

Fake Greek Scholar said...

Longitudinal DNA and gene transfer happens all the time in nature. Nature GMOs things all the time.

Harold Caidagh said...

No, sorry Alcibiades.

Nature doesn't create square tomatoes that have a skin which repels petrochemicals (life-icides) nor tomatoes that don't ripen naturally.

Natural occurrence doesn't put pig fetus genetic material into human organisms for fraidy-cat disease avoidance.

Natural occurrence doesn't see mosquito DNA spliced into corn DNA.

Of course, you'll say you're just "being funny on the internet" and you'll chide, "don't take things so seriously."

Alcibiades has an undergrad degree in marketing and computer science, so he knows all there is to know about genetics.

Fake Greek Scholar said...

It happens all the time and has happened throughout evolution, an entire kingdom, the Archaea have genotypes that appear to be hybrids of the other two kingdoms the Eukarya and Eubacteria.

Harold Caidagh said...

So the existence of insects proves that humans are hominids, eh Al?

You don't even know enough about genetics or molecular biology to distinguish between human-engineered splicing and molecular-level manipulation, and that which occurs because of natural events. Human tampering isn't a natural event. The automobile would not exist if nature had its way. But that's the whole problem for you, isn't it Al?

Fake Greek Scholar said...

Just as I thought, you're another fraidy-cat Marxist who doesn't understand that progress and economics are the lodestone of existence. You think nature exists without human input. What an idiot.

Chet Redweld said...

It's like arguing with Kevin Bazar/kidwoo.

"Watch me chase my tail. If I spin fast enough I've refuted you!"

Karl Franz Ochstradt said...

More like this, Chet:

"Watch me use internet memes and witty putdowns in lieu of facts, logic and reasoning. Since most people are stupid and easily gulled, they'll think the putdown is the same as a rational, fact-based argument. It helps if you have an Internet Rep, or at least a Durable Personal Brand on a given forum. On TGR and ridemonkey, that's the kidwoo mark of excellence. Which you don't have. So I win."

Spin it slightly for Nigel West Dickens and you have this:

"Watch me use non-science and appeals to authority in lieu of facts, logic and reasoning. Since most Silent T readers and commenters think greed is the same as science, and since they think a BS in engineering or computer science means you know genetics and molecular biology better than anyone, they'll think my appeals to profit and greed are the same as a science-based refutation. It helps if you have an Internet Rep, or at least a Durable Personal Brand on a given forum. On, that's the Ron Bailey mark of excellence. Which you don't have. So I win."

Delius said...

That response demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of how genetics work. There is no such thing as the "genes" of a lightning bug. All life on Earth is made from the same genes, put together in different sequences. Some of these are identical between virtually all lifeforms. A small sequence taken out of a lightning bug will not be stamped "ORIGIN: Lightning Bug". Its just a series of genes which cause a particular kind of behavior when inserted at a given point in the genetic code of a particular organism.

Charles F. Oxtrot said...

Aaaaah look here. A fine display of facticity; a regular emulation of Noam Chomsky.

Yes, at a chemical level, all DNA is the same.

It's all DeoxyriboNucleicAcid. Yes.

That doesn't mean much. You sound like you went to Wikipedia and looked up what DNA is and then decided that chemical ubiquity equals genetic ubiquity.

If only it were that simple.

Perhaps it bothers you that nature (all that is not a human, nor a human-made device or structure, here on Earth) was not created by humans, and this makes you feel small and powerless, and you revert to adolescence psychologically, emotionally and cognitively and find yourself rebelling against parental and other authority because they present the problem of otherness and power within others? Perhaps you like to assume that somewhere back in time, Some Dude built himself a DNA factory and just put DNA on stuff, and miraculously it turned into plants and animals. Out of nowhere. Because of his entrepreneurial spirit and profit motive.

But that explains nothing other than human motive, Delius. It doesn't grasp nature or biology in any substantive way.

Harold Caidagh said...

Silent T genius, the only kind of genius that knows a tiny fraction of all which is knowable, yet believes itself driven by omniscience.

Wahn Baiwee said...

Humanity is everything. What you call "nature" is just resources waiting for profit to be realized. And if nobody's making a profit, the resource is underused. The Earth is here for us to strip clean of everything that can be made into something the marketing people can convince you to buy. That's the only purpose of the world that you see outside of what humans have made: to be put to profitable use. One day, stupid Marxists like you will be turned into the coppertop people we saw in the Matrix. That's when you will find your optimum utility. When we can use you to power our machines. And those machines will be me. I will be the overarching major general mechanical mastermind of humanity by that point. I will have merged with machines and become the most powerful cybernetic entity ever imagined. You are just too Marxist and scientifically ignorant to realize this is how it will be. So you're in denial.

Karl Franz Ochstradt said...

Hot diggity dog, I didn't think I'd get to make this analogy any time soon, but here it is, teed up like a tyke's tee ball "pitch":

It happens all the time and has happened throughout evolution, an entire kingdom, the Archaea have genotypes that appear to be hybrids of the other two kingdoms the Eukarya and Eubacteria.

Yes, the "inevitability of mutation" argument used to justify human genetic tampering. It's already happening in nature, why not hasten it?

Alcibiades, I'd like you to kill yourself now. Mortality is obvious, you can't escape it, and for progress's sake you need to bring that end to fruition ASAP. Makes sense, right? Gonna happen anyway, eventually!